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Junkrigged Tacking Proa from Röda Möllan Sweden

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Hi Johannes,
I was actually referring to this (picture attached). I’m not sure the picture which I want to attach will go through. But it is the picture above the one you have referred to.
What do you think?
Peter

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petermirow - 03 March 2013 02:31 PM

Hi Johannes,
I was actually referring to this (picture attached). I’m not sure the picture which I want to attach will go through. But it is the picture above the one you have referred to.
What do you think?
Peter

First I thought so as well…
But I think Alex is right. The front of the “deck” (can someone really call that a deck????) is made of 2 doors, opening up, hinged on the side of the “deck”.
On the picture you are referring to, the right dood is opened and pointing upwards. If you look carefully, you can see that the nice looking wood work is the door itself, and it is partially blocking the view of one of the hull ports further aft and also the connection of the front beam to the main hull. Looking at what is in the background, you can decipher the contour of the door and see it open, upwards.

What a boat anyway!
I thought I was a bit of an “excentric” for loving proas, but I am proven that there are different levels in weirdness, and I have only a “white belt”, where the proud owner of this vessel has a “black belt”!!!

Cheers,

Laurent

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petermirow - 03 March 2013 05:16 AM

Hi Alex,
I see hinges too, I agree. But doesn’t it look like it would be hinged downwards?
Peter

Both the nose panels have a pair of hinges on their lower edges. In the photo that shows one of them opened, it is only swung out by about ninety degrees or so.

Love the craftsmanship - reminds of the Dubonnet Hispano-Suiza with the rosewood body…

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Peter (H)
Aptitude + Attitude = Altitude

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Oh…
I can see it now. .... Funny how perception can deceive. I was seeing a big gaping hole in the bow, and was worried that such a nice boat would have received such a blow.
Thanks.

.... Indeed I admire the drive to produce such a unique craft.
Cheers,
Peter

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It is beautiful indeed, even though every bit of it is fat (for an outrigger).  I wonder what its design criteria was?  The main hull itself is pretty close to a monohull in form, minus the heavy deep keel that it would need. So the outrigger parts replace the keel, and I assume you get an overall lighter boat for the same sail-carrying capacity.  Then you get shallow draft as a benefit (I don’t know that area of the world—are there a lot of shallows that become opened up once the boat leaves its deep keel behind?).  There is now some capsize risk as someone mentioned, and no lee-pod for safety, but perhaps the low junk sails reduce that risk, and maybe the ama is heavy.  Intriguing!—Wade

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wadetarzia - 03 April 2013 12:05 PM

The main hull itself is pretty close to a monohull in form…

Hi Wade, I didn’t know you were on this forum:-) I think this hull could almost class as a scow hull! Very interesting and nice looking boat.

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Hey Mal, I’m on far too many groups grin  Yes, a scow hull, that seems about right.—Wade

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It is designed in collaboration with Jurgen Sass.
Fredrik designed and built Akka as a exhibit-object for woodworking and beautiful design. Its very difficult to find a place to keep a wide tri or catamaran here in sweden, so he built a slightly more monohull-inspired and not soo wide tacker instead.
Fredrik Ljungström and Jac M Iversens Tesla was a source of inspiration.

(we have a long history of experimental designs in sweden)

Ljungströmare genom tiderna - Tesla

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Simple, efficient and fun!

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One more picture of Akka:

Cheers,
Johannes

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akka-sidovy.jpg

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Simple, efficient and fun!

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Sigh…

I sometimes feel I am from another planet, for I often have opinions completely at odds with the consensus. Without meaning to sound unpleasant, I do not find this boat to be at all beautiful.

I can hear the way the water slaps that obese bow, and I am revolted by the bilious wake from trying to push an underpowered tank upwind while the crew struggles to keep her pointed with an inadequate, antiquated rig.

There are plenty of boats with beautiful craftsmanship, but a well built, bad design is just that. As a houseboat, this craft is a cut above, but as a proa? It’s silly.

Per my signature, there is no accounting for taste. Sorry. Not my thing. Not at all. I wouldn’t be caught dead in this boat, and “dead” is what would happen to anyone who took this admittedly fabulously crafted artifact into a gale.

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De gustibus non disputandum est. About taste, there is no disputing.

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Rick - 04 April 2013 10:32 PM

Sigh…

I sometimes feel I am from another planet, for I often have opinions completely at odds with the consensus.

You are not alone. I also don’t find much attractive about this boat. For me a boat is beautiful when it artfully mixes design and function.  This feels heavy on the design side, and light on the function.

I keep looking at the forward deck and thinking that it was designed to fall off of.  And that nose hatch, that you can’t access from on the boat or off??

Despite that, as an art object, it is still kind of pretty.

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Galen - 11 April 2013 07:28 AM

Despite that, as an art object, it is still kind of pretty.

Yes. And in this day and age of quickly tossed off stuff, it’s a pleasure to see old school craftsmanship.

I think I should modify my opinion. It so happens that I tend to judge any boat by its seagoing capabilities, and that’s not fair. A boat should be judged based on its intended use. This craft, putting around in inland waterways, maybe putting up the sails in a little breeze, and relaxing with one’s friends, is probably perfect.

Even those dangerous forward hatches probably provide nice, flow-through ventilation on sultry summer days.

One thing I have learned about boatbuilding: It is very, very difficult to make a living using old-fashioned, labor intensive methods. I understand why builders strive for construction efficiency. So, again, here we have craftsmanship of which any woodworker could be proud. Bravo.

(I still would have like to see a finer entry and a bit more tucked together stern, and, I’m sorry, junk rigs are ugly.)

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De gustibus non disputandum est. About taste, there is no disputing.

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Rick - 11 April 2013 10:12 AM
Galen - 11 April 2013 07:28 AM

Despite that, as an art object, it is still kind of pretty.

I tend to judge any boat by its seagoing capabilities

A boat should be judged based on its intended use.

I’m sorry, junk rigs are ugly

Dear Rick
I have no intention of persuading you of the virtues and beauty of the junk rig, however it does have some very positive values. It probably is one of the most useful seagoing rig for minimal budget sailing. The voyages of Roger Taylor on Ming Ming are truly extraordinary.

For prudent seamanship and efficient sailing a rig which can be very quickly matched to the wind conditions is desirable. This is very important on a Proa and the junk rig offers this. Of the countless accounts of long distance short crewed sailing there is one common theme,  the skipper agonising over whether to increase or decrease sail. This is never an issue with a junk as it can often be done from the safety the cabin. It must be remembered this proa is sailed in northern latitudes so easy sail handling is desirable, plus the shape of the coachroof makes it essential. In post 23 the proa is show with a Ljungström rig, giving very easy sail handing also.

Balance, sheeting loads etc etc are all further advantages well documented before so I won’t repeat.

In terms of the beauty of the rig, the silhouette picture in post 24 is gorgeous. Much closer to the perfect plan form and nature than a highly stressed triangle. The junks young and developing cousin the soft wing is aesthetically pretty perfect and offers great functionality.

TINK

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TINK - 12 April 2013 02:08 AM

In terms of the beauty of the rig, the silhouette picture in post 24 is gorgeous. Much closer to the perfect plan form and nature than a highly stressed triangle. The junks young and developing cousin the soft wing is aesthetically pretty perfect and offers great functionality.

Well, there I went shooting my mouth off again. The other day, one of my friends commented, “Rick. Dude. What’s up with you? When did you become so argumentative?”

I realized that it was a byproduct of grad school where I was arguing with historians constantly.

For example, I was reading that the “Lateen” rig (scare quotes intentional because it was originally spelled “Latine” as in “Latin type” and pronounced laht-TEEN-eh) was first used around 200 AD. When I brought this up, no one agreed that it was probably in use long before that. Why? Because there was no proof. That was “speculation.” I argued that given the leisurely pace of technological development in the ancient era, it was highly likely that someone discovered the close windedness of the Latin rig long before. In fact, I would even guess that it is actually an old Phoenician rig.

But there was no point in arguing that with historians. They just shake their heads and sigh, saying, “You don’t get it, do you?”

Point is, I got used to people who could not only dish it out, they could take it too. Now, as I re-make my transition back into “civilian” life, I am finding I have to soften my sometimes harsh opinions. There is no honor in being an ass. I do apologize.

So to make it up by providing a genuine contribution rather than juvenile bitching, here’s a fun fact from history. It is not well known that during the early Ming era, the Chinese truly did venture out into the deep. It is absolutely confirmed that they made it as far as the east coast of Africa. And they did it using boats, or ships, if you prefer, not much different from boats you will find in Hong Kong today.

In the end, they found the venture more expensive than it was worth. Barbarians, barbarians everywhere, they said.

I love the Chinese.

Cheers

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De gustibus non disputandum est. About taste, there is no disputing.

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Just not the Chinese lug rig ?
wink