Scampi
Here’s a thought. I reduce the size of the main to something like 180 sq ft., and have a little 60 sq ft jib. Its a small sail that’s easy to handle in the mostly light air when it would be out. Since he boat is built to balance with the CE fairly far aft in main-only mode, the jib can be fairly far aft. In fact, maybe it could have its tack on the leading edge of the pod. Then all of the jib handling could be done from the companionways! In a shunt, you just take it down, unhook the tack of the jib, shunt, then attach the tack on the new side and raise it on the new tack. I love the idea that you could play around with where to tie down the tack on different points of sail. Bigger/smaller slot? Could the tack get tied to the forward windward corner of the cockpit going downwind?
Moving that 60 sq feet out of the top of the mainsail cut the mast down almost 4-5 feet. In the comparison here, the “sloop” has 240 sq ft of sail (including wing mast) and the una rigged boat has about 215 including wing mast.
I’ve always loved boats with their jibs well behind the bows…though this is rather extreme. If it makes sense in terms of rig and foil placement, it could provide a fairly safe, comfortable way to handle small headsails on a proa.
Cheers,
Chris
here’s that comparison, and a close up.
...some downwind configurations. The sail shapes are wrong, but you get the idea.
Gad, the concepts are flying too fast to comment! 😉
Of all your rigs, the standing lug is my personal favorite, it seems to fit the boat so well. However, on rigs, there can be no agreement.
Your flurry of rig development made me consider the opposite design course - choose a rig, and then go from there - that’s where Palomino comes from.
Yes, you are on fire!
I like the new rig with the jib set flying off the leading edge of the pod. What is the distance between the cross arms? I was thinking maybe the pod could be lengthened a bit. That would push the tack of the jib forward and give a better bunk in the pod.
Sailing with the main alone on my boat means fighting a bit of weather helm and the boat can get caught in irons. Fighting weather helm with a skeg rudder is like having a cambered wing helping you get to weather, so that seems okay. The boat is pretty under powered under main alone, but when it’s really blowing and the main is reefed, it does really well upwind.
Your angles between mast and head stays does look a little tight, but I think that you could get away with a lot less angle that what I have been using.
The head stays could move to the lee side of the main hull if you didn’t want to move the step to windward.
Russell
I guess I have been drawing a few proas…I’m scheming a riff on Palamino that has a few twists and turns. More on that later.
Of all your rigs, the standing lug is my personal favorite, it seems to fit the boat so well. However, on rigs, there can be no agreement
.
The lug is super charming and simple. But the high aspect una-rig with a jib for fair weather is really working for me right now. The fact that the tack of the jib is accessible from the companionway for take downs really appeals to me. And when it starts to blow, having one easily shunted, easily reefed sail sounds really nice. Plus it should boogie in a lot of conditions.
I like the new rig with the jib set flying off the leading edge of the pod. What is the distance between the cross arms? I was thinking maybe the pod could be lengthened a bit. That would push the tack of the jib forward and give a better bunk in the pod.
The distance between the cross beams was 7’ in my last post. I shortened it by a foot when I discovered that I had been drawing a 27 foot boat. In this version I’ve stretched it back to 8’. A foot of interior space on a boat this small makes a big difference; bigger footwell between the berths, bigger hatches…elbow room. I guess it doesn’t look TOO tubby. But a little more hull sticking out would make it look sleeker. Maybe it is a 27 foot boat…and everything else grows….ug. Or maybe I embrace the Scampi-ness of looking a bit squashed.
I don’t think my pod is going to make a very habitable bunk. Its 22” high at its tallest point. But it will be an awesome storage space and really opens up the sight lines of the interior.
Thanks for your input on the staying angle! I’ve moved the mast out to where its sitting on a compression post right on the gunwale, and the forestay is 2’ back from the bow, on the leeward gunwale. That has increased the distance (windward to leeward) from 17” before, to 27”. What’s next? Move the mast further to windward than the gunwale? Stay struts on the leeward side of the hull? The bigger the staying angle gets, the shorter the boom gets, the taller the mast gets to give me the same area. I’m pretty high aspect ratio now! Maybe a little too high..
Sailing with the main alone on my boat means fighting a bit of weather helm and the boat can get caught in irons. Fighting weather helm with a skeg rudder is like having a cambered wing helping you get to weather, so that seems okay. The boat is pretty under powered under main alone, but when it’s really blowing and the main is reefed, it does really well upwind.
If your rudder were further back, would Jzerro balance under main alone? That’s super fascinating about the skeg rudder acting a cambered wing. It makes total sense!
Thanks for your thoughts!
chris
Do you really need two hatches? They weigh and takes time and money to build.
/Garg
The 8’ cockpit is still fine, after all, Scamp is the inspiration, you have a long way to go before you get that tubby.
The bigger the staying angle gets, the shorter the boom gets, the taller the mast gets to give me the same area. I’m pretty high aspect ratio now! Maybe a little too high..
Looks a bit high to me, at least if trapping off the ama isn’t part of the schedule! Though I do like the aesthetic of the close coupled jib, sort of like an old meter boat. I’ve gone around and around with the boom length vs. stays on Palomino, it’s a tough one especially when I’m only guessing on the amount of twist in the main.
inspiration
You mean something like that?...
inspiration
You mean something like that?...
Ahh, Laurent’s speedy boat! Well sorted in it’s later iterations. I gotta imagine that a Hobie style wing seat would make that boat really comfortable. Did he end up shipping it with him to the Pacific or did he sell it while in Huston?
Dan
inspiration
You mean something like that?...
Ahh, Laurent’s speedy boat! Well sorted in it’s later iterations. I gotta imagine that a Hobie style wing seat would make that boat really comfortable. Did he end up shipping it with him to the Pacific or did he sell it while in Huston?
Dan
Boat went with him, Kevin got the trailer I think. All that’s left is a lot of memories.
cheers,
Skip
inspiration
You mean something like that?...
uh… yeah!
Do you really need two hatches? They weigh and takes time and money to build.
I think hatches are the nicest place to stay on a boat. In the mostly nice weather I’ll be sailing in, they’ll be open so I can dangle my legs in there, and keep it bright and airy below. When the spray gets flying, they’ll get covered with fabric covers. The vertical portion of the cover will zip down so you can stick your legs in, or zip half way up so that there is still some air circulation.
If building the minimum were the aim, I wouldn’t have indulged so many aesthetic flourishes.
But building the minimum is a neat idea. That’s what Pinto is.
Ok, I’ve reined in the rig a little. This rig has 165 feet in the main, 50 in the jib. 215 is back in hobie 16 territory. That’s still a lot of sail! But now its on a 26 foot mast, not a 31 footer. I think its looking pretty right. The aft stay is intersecting my non-twisting mainsail but I’ll cross my fingers for now.
The details I’m still working on are the motor mount, a place to put anchoring gear and other “outside” things like gas, bucket head, etc. Is it a sled to windward? I played with enclosing the space under the perch seat, but it kills one of the nicest visual details of the boat—the jaunty “transom” to windward. The sled is not going to do it any favors, but it could be minimized.
One of the hardest things to figure out is a comfortable place to drive under power and still have access to the outboard. The 360 degree rotation of the portable outboard seems like too nice a resource to waste.
The berths inside were meant to be water tight—with plywood PT watercraft type hatches. The idea was to have some reserve buoyancy if the boat got swamped. But maybe I should clear out the interior and have fabric berths, laced to the sides of the boat. That could open up the interior space in come cool ways. And eliminates the need for camping mattresses.
I like your ideas and thoughts about the hatches. Made me rethink some things. Thank you.
/Garg