America’s Cup Cats on TV
Has anyone else been watching?
What amazing speed.
Seen them in person—it’s jaw dropping.
I missed it when the kiwis stuffed it last week (week before?). The windward gate is the best part.
I saw it when the Kiwis stuff the bows and almost pitchpoled. Amazing that they didn’t do more damage. They did wash 2 guys overboard. I’m sure someone has video footage on some place like Bing.
It is fantastic. The speed jumps they achieve when they get up on foil is crazy. Boy does is it dangerous though. Bodies go flying when they to bury a bow, dead stop from over 40 knts. PFD’s double as body armor.
Well, that was a lot of fun to watch. Amazing comeback…
Amazing comeback…
That depends which side of the Pacific you’re on.
Amazing comeback…
That depends which side of the Pacific you’re on.
There was a distinct lack of Americans sailing (unless you count the Benjamin Franklins). It’s pretty hard to look at (and listen to) Team Oracle and be convinced this was actually an “American” entry.
I was amazed by the spectacle. I wasn’t so sure it was actually “The America’s Cup” in the traditional sense. I think boats like this deserve their own series.
I’m not convinced “The America’s Cup” should continue on the format. It is so expensive that there are incredibly few countries that can put together enough cubic dollars to buy in. ETNZ will probably not exist in it’s current form in days. Time will tell.
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Bill in Ottawa
There was a distinct lack of Americans sailing (unless you count the Benjamin Franklins). It’s pretty hard to look at (and listen to) Team Oracle and be convinced this was actually an “American” entry.
Oh, it’s worse than you think.
The majority of the design team was European, and everything but the bare hulls was built in New Zealand. The whole “Team USA” bit is nothing more than branding.
There was a distinct lack of Americans sailing (unless you count the Benjamin Franklins). It’s pretty hard to look at (and listen to) Team Oracle and be convinced this was actually an “American” entry.
Oh, it’s worse than you think.
The majority of the design team was European, and everything but the bare hulls was built in New Zealand. The whole “Team USA” bit is nothing more than branding.
Dr. Tom Speer (formerly of Boeing) did work on the wing aerodynamics. I have heard that Paul Beiker did a serious amount of design work and Russell Brown (yes, the Russell Brown who posts here) has done work for Team Oracle as well. I don’t doubt that the Oracle team was assembled of the absolute best that could be bought - including talent. Although I’m certain national borders and citizenship was not a participation issue with Oracle, I do respect that a lot of American talent was part of the team.
In this time of the global economy, the actual location of fabrication and labor is not really a good judge of the “nationality” of the product. Even the money to pay for a team isn’t a national issue. ETNZ happily took money from the Middle East, added Emirates to the team name and tweaked logos.
Using low cost manufacturing, labour and offshore sources is one of the only places money can be saved in projects like this. I can hire a doctorate level technology person for $15-20 per hour outside North America or I can pay $100+ per hour for the same skill set here. What makes more sense?
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Bill in Ottawa
Using low cost manufacturing, labour and offshore sources is one of the only places money can be saved in projects like this. I can hire a doctorate level technology person for $15-20 per hour outside North America or I can pay $100+ per hour for the same skill set here. What makes more sense?
It depends on whether you want to portray the competition as a business venture (as in modern day F1 racing) or as an international contest between nations (as in the Olympic Games). Either way, I think the ‘branding’ as Old Greg accurately puts it, should be in line with the reality.
So if it is a business venture, then $15-20 per hour makes eminent sense but it should be called Team Oracle. But if you want to play on peoples nationalistic sentiments, then $100+ would seem appropriate to me and then the team could then be called “Team USA”. If the ‘team’ is representing a county, then I think, at the very minimum, the crew members should be citizens of that country. Otherwise, we are all participating in yet another mass deceit like ‘Santa Claus’. And look at the trouble that has got us into 😊
Using low cost manufacturing, labour and offshore sources is one of the only places money can be saved in projects like this. I can hire a doctorate level technology person for $15-20 per hour outside North America or I can pay $100+ per hour for the same skill set here. What makes more sense?
It depends on whether you want to portray the competition as a business venture (as in modern day F1 racing) or as an international contest between nations (as in the Olympic Games). Either way, I think the ‘branding’ as Old Greg accurately puts it, should be in line with the reality.
So if it is a business venture, then $15-20 per hour makes eminent sense but it should be called Team Oracle. But if you want to play on peoples nationalistic sentiments, then $100+ would seem appropriate to me and then the team could then be called “Team USA”. If the ‘team’ is representing a county, then I think, at the very minimum, the crew members should be citizens of that country. Otherwise, we are all participating in yet another mass deceit like ‘Santa Claus’. And look at the trouble that has got us into 😊
I think that like The Great Pumpkin and other mythical holiday heroes most of these contests are business ventures. They sell even better wrapped in a flag.
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Bill in Ottawa
I was watching as well, couldn’t really help it. God, those huge boats/flying machines, barreling down the track at 41 knots, possible mayhem at every tack, and remarkably good racing after all was said and done. I hate to admit it, because I’ve been a constant naysayer on this 34th version of the cup, but I’m happy to have seen these giants race.
The Formula 1 analogy is probably the most accurate. However, given the economic climate, grand prix yachting is in a serious contraction all over, and I wonder about the sustainability of such massively expensive race boats. A bit of downsizing wouldn’t hurt.
I think that like The Great Pumpkin and other mythical holiday heroes most of these contests are business ventures. They sell even better wrapped in a flag.
Thing is, to be a business venture the teams would need to actually make money, which they don’t. All but Team NZ are bankrolled by a multi-billionaire (Larry Ellison, Torbjörn Törnqvist, Patrizio Bertelli, Ernesto Bertarelli, et al.). And Team NZ, even scraping together all the sponsorship money they could find and even with US$30M of NZ taxpayer money the team still needed tens of millions of dollars from guys like Matteo de Nora and Stephen Tindall amongst other wealthy benefactors.
So I disagree that the AC is a business venture, financially speaking it is, as it has always been, a diverting way for a handful of ultra-wealthy yachting enthusiasts to spend part of their considerable fortunes. And God bless those rich fools for wasting their money on it. 😉
What makes more sense?
I made no judgments, I merely expanded upon the non-American-ness of Oracle Team “USA”. It is/was undeniably an international team, especially if, as you claim, it doesn’t matter where the money came from. I have no problem with the fact that it was an international effort; it worked, they won, good for them, I’m in awe of what they have created/accomplished.
So I disagree that the AC is a business venture, financially speaking it is, as it has always been, a diverting way for a handful of ultra-wealthy yachting enthusiasts to spend part of their considerable fortunes. And God bless those rich fools for wasting their money on it.
Well said, Old Greg. The trouble with these kinds of events is that they have to sort of economically justify the race, to we mortals, even though that’s not the point at all. The point is the race. I’m just happy that they spend it on sailboat races, rather than less savory endeavors.
and I wonder about the sustainability of such massively expensive race boats. A bit of downsizing wouldn’t hurt.
They could start downsizing by making one hull a lot smaller!!! 😉
So I disagree that the AC is a business venture, financially speaking it is, as it has always been, a diverting way for a handful of ultra-wealthy yachting enthusiasts to spend part of their considerable fortunes. And God bless those rich fools for wasting their money on it.
Well said, Old Greg. The trouble with these kinds of events is that they have to sort of economically justify the race, to we mortals, even though that’s not the point at all. The point is the race. I’m just happy that they spend it on sailboat races, rather than less savory endeavors.
If your definition of business is strictly money, sure. If your definition is “return on investment” then things are different. Image, ego and perception are intangible in the monetary sense but real all the same.
As a rule, people do not accumulate absurd wealth by accident or by being foolish with their spending. Dominance is not just a canine behaviour - it is real at a national level, a business level and a personal level.
The America’s Cup was originally focused at “National” level image - the upstart United States felt the need to express it’s interest in dethroning the United Kingdom as the dominant seafaring nation in the world. And they quickly and conclusively did. Their reign lasted a long time. Then the Southern seafarers in the Pacific felt the need to wipe the complacent superior smirks off the American visage, which they did after some effort. Now with globalization of economies and trade, business ventures that operate across borders became more relevant and home to the largest egos that previously would have been limited to one country. The Ellisons, Gates, Murdochs, Oatleys, Bertarellis and the like of the world became larger international players than national leaders. As the ultra rich have little concern for national borders and prestige, the America’s Cup has morphed into an ego contest battled on many fronts - legal, geographical and design.
Like most of my generation I grew up thinking the nation-state level contests were the top level of competition. Over time I have come to think differently as contests like the Olympics opened up to professional athletes and became entertainment empires selling television advertising instead of sporting events and a level playing field.
I certainly was glued to the screen watching this America’s Cup. The complete paradigm shift in what constitutes high performance sailing was undeniable. In many ways I’m sad however. There is no way my country Canada is going to ever be able to field a legitimate challenger. We just don’t have the absurdly rich players with sufficiently fragile egos that need this level of reinforcement. As this is a proa forum, I’m here because I like the appeal of ridiculously high performance at embarrassingly low cost. I’d get an Ellison-level ego jolt being able to pass $250,000 36’ racing boats in a 25’ proa I built for $15,000. That’s the plan.
Bill in Ottawa