Russell Brown Lightship
Hey All,
Does anyone have an update on this gorgeous design? Russell Brown Jester class
As I was working on my model, I was unsatisfied with the ama. I felt I needed a shape that could take a total smashing from a big beam sea while hove-to, so I followed up. The foregoing design has everything I love about proas and nothing that makes me fret about unseaworthiness.
Any word?
[edit: here’s a picture from the website]
Isn´t it an early design of Madness?
As far as I know, this post-dates Madness. Note the fine, wave piercing ama, the mast stepped at the gunwale, the inboard jib, the huge daggerboard in the ama, the sleek daggerboards with internal controls in the hull, and rather spacious accommodation for the length while still keeping low windage. This—as far as I know—represents Russell’s latest thinking on proas.
Also, this boat is designed to for the trans-Atlantic race. Fixated as I am on ocean going vessels to the exclusion of all else, I find the design compelling. It’s an exquisite meeting of form and function. I’d love to see an article about this boat.
[P.S. I asked about this boat on the blog. I’ll let you know if I get a response.]
Hello Rick,
The Jester class proa has new legs in the form of a client who is willing to put up the money to complete the design.
The client is not a racer, but is a long distance sailor who is also a really good boat builder. He loves the boat and sees the logic in having the design completed before building.
I’ll try to keep the forum up to date on the design.
Regards,
Russell
P.S. Paul Bieker is the one finishing the design, not me. I drew the basic lines for this boat, but Paul has taken it from there. He approaches design from a much more scientific place than I and he has learned things that I never knew, at least never knew for sure, about proa’s. Paul has some pretty exciting projects going at the moment, but he hasn’t been able to put the little proa down.
Russell
Hi Russell,
Thanks for the update! It’s good to know this boat has a new client, and I had wondered about where the work of one or the other designer began and ended. The lines are beautiful. Everything seems “just right.” The ama, in particular, is probably the prettiest one I’ve ever seen, and, according to my crude measurements, still has plenty of safe buoyancy. The shape of the rocker on the vaka seems perfect… I could go on, but, if one day, you see one of my boats, well, you will see where I got a lot of important ideas.
Cheers,
Rick
New update on Paul Bieker blog page on his proa design!
It seems to progress well, if at a slower pace than most of us would like to see…
Details here:
http://www.biekerboats.blogspot.com/
Cheers!
Thanks for the update. Checked out the site. Nice! (I love this boat.)
The mischievous detective in me wonders if the client for this boat is John Harris from CLC? There are reports on another forum that he may be minded to sell ‘Madness’, the joints in the Bieker/Brown 32er have mysteriously changed from scarfs to puzzle and the client is a ‘very good boatbuilder’. Maybe he has had a taste of what is possible in Madness and is closing in on the boat he really, really wants?
Just a bit of fun….
The mischievous detective in me wonders if the client for this boat is John Harris from CLC? There are reports on another forum that he may be minded to sell ‘Madness’, the joints in the Bieker/Brown 32er have mysteriously changed from scarfs to puzzle and the client is a ‘very good boatbuilder’. Maybe he has had a taste of what is possible in Madness and is closing in on the boat he really, really wants?
Just a bit of fun….
I’ve talked with John Harris about Madness - he offered to sell the prototype to me (it is for sale). He loves the boat, but it just isn’t a good fit with his toddler right now, nor does he have the right geography for it. His house is about eight miles up a river from the Chesapeake, and the transit time makes it impractical to keep it at home. So he had to pay for a mooring/dockage down near Annapolis. There just isn’t any possibility of quick sailing, and any sailing time would be cutting into major family time with his daughter & wife.
I doubt he’s building the Beiker/Brown proa because none of these problematic things change with a slightly larger design.
I completely understand his situation - my wife isn’t a sailor and my son at 15 is more interested in his own activities. Madness (or Lightship) is exactly what I’d ideally want from a performance/size perspective, but they aren’t really painless trailer sailors, and they aren’t low effort single-handers.
If I won the Lotto and could afford to boat build full time, I’d be on the list for the Beiker/Brown design. My wife refers to Lotteries as voluntary taxation for the stupid, so I doubt I’m getting a winning ticket or boat plans for Christmas.
—
Bill
My wife refers to Lotteries as voluntary taxation for the stupid
Love it!
but they aren’t really painless trailer sailors, and they aren’t low effort single-handers.
What would remedy that for you, Bill?
My wife refers to Lotteries as voluntary taxation for the stupid
Love it!but they aren’t really painless trailer sailors, and they aren’t low effort single-handers.
What would remedy that for you, Bill?
I’ve done a lot of thinking on this and am getting ready to convert hand sketches to CAD drawings soon.
Painless trailer sailors:
* Easy to launch / assemble / retrieve / disassemble by one person
* Easy to rig / step & drop mast(s)
* Prefer free standing composite mast(s) without (or minimal) standing rigging
* Folding akas would be preferred, but optimal RM aka length (and weight) makes this very tough
* Optimally financially affordable (i.e. minimal carbon & large scale panel infusion)
* Demountable ama is less expensive, but adds to rigging time
* Buildable and developable - build space is an issue, so modular building would be nice.
* Handle weekend overnights with dry accommodation - I’m not 20 anymore
* under 24’ long / 8.5’ wide when on trailer
Low effort single handers:
* Schooner rigged with two masts, no roller furling headsails to duplicate/move/drop
* Easy shunting, option of tacking in lighter conditions (I sail in river venues close to home - Ottawa, St. Laurence, Thousand Islands)
* Ogive / Tom Speer optimized bi-directional foils
I’ve taken a hard look at Mark Gumprecht’s 24’ home built wing mast on his nice Drifter 17 tri, and have corresponded with Eric Sponberg & Gary Baigent about their freestanding/rotating rigs and engineering issues involved - and think I can arrive at a workable solution. I’m a former trapeze/skiff sailor who has single handed performance dinghies with trapeze and asymmetrical spinnakers so performance is pretty important.
I’ve done a fair amount of research & talking with incumbent designers (that I’m not afraid to talk to). Been lurking on boat design sites for about ten years and have built a couple boats by myself as well as helping on other builds with professionals. I’ve got a product engineering background and haven’t lost any fingers in the shop yet.
My mainly inshore, light wind home location is a major factor as well. Once I get further down the road I’ll do a blog explaining the choices and compromises I’m willing to try.
I’d love to end with a driveway/storage lot boat I could sail alone or with the wife with under 1/2 hour setup/launch and the same to retrieve. Now that I re-read this it seems daunting - almost lottery win difficult.
—
Bill
I’d love to end with a driveway/storage lot boat I could sail alone or with the wife with under 1/2 hour setup/launch and the same to retrieve. Now that I re-read this it seems daunting - almost lottery win difficult.
—
Bill
Not necessarily so, it was far from perfect but P52 would rig and be in the water in less than a half hour if I worked steadily and didn’t stop to jaw with bystanders. Retrieval was just as quick.
Two recommendations.
1. Consider telescoping beams. Typically there’s a limit to the extra width gained from trailering width but it makes for a deadass simple setup.
2. Look very critically at any trampoline setup. Tramps have some advantages but not that many in this side range, I’ve never regretted abandoning the tramp on P52.
Really looking forward to seeing what you’ve got in mind, my path is similar tempered by age, shallow water and the like. See the Nomad thread here for what I’ve got in mind factoring in I’ve become a schooner convert.
Cheers,
Skip
Bill S - consider yourself quoted in full. This is my Christmas wish list as well! I’d love to find that simpl-ish boat that had a solid engineering effort aimed at your list of requirements.
I’ve purchased plans (and ply) for the Strike 15, and although she folds, apparently she’ll only do that at the shoreline. And although she has standing rigging, R Woods says she rigs quickly and you can be sailing within 20 minutes. But I don’t think she would make a good camping platform.
I’d try the W17, but that rig, again, seems a bit daunting (rotating wing mast). Frank Smoots’ 19’ tri seems like it is just about perfect in terms of build complexity and speed to go sailing, but I wonder if I’d find the design a little fragile for open water, and I think I’d like the option of getting out on the ama to improve RM. Not sure though, since the protection of sitting in the main hull is appealing to the Watertriber in me… I can definitely see going down Pine Island Sound in that boat.
I’ve tried to imagine Elementarry with a modern update on rudders and a light cupola (for camping) on the windward ama, but just don’t know if the design is a good one. I wouldn’t mind being a guinea pig if I was more sure of my test pilot credentials. I’ve rolled my monohull a couple of times, and don’t want to do that again if I can avoid it.
I’d love to end with a driveway/storage lot boat I could sail alone or with the wife with under 1/2 hour setup/launch and the same to retrieve. Now that I re-read this it seems daunting - almost lottery win difficult.
—
BillNot necessarily so, it was far from perfect but P52 would rig and be in the water in less than a half hour if I worked steadily and didn’t stop to jaw with bystanders. Retrieval was just as quick.
Two recommendations.
1. Consider telescoping beams. Typically there’s a limit to the extra width gained from trailering width but it makes for a deadass simple setup.2. Look very critically at any trampoline setup. Tramps have some advantages but not that many in this side range, I’ve never regretted abandoning the tramp on P52.
Really looking forward to seeing what you’ve got in mind, my path is similar tempered by age, shallow water and the like. See the Nomad thread here for what I’ve got in mind factoring in I’ve become a schooner convert.
Cheers,
Skip
Skip & Phillysailor:
Recommendations noted!
I’m going to go back and review the P52 in depth. I like the idea of telescoping akas - but haven’t really thought about it in depth. First glance indicated beam would be capped at about 10’-12’ feet at full extension allowing for a 2’ overlap in the tubes. I’ll ponder things a bit and sketch up some thoughts. Tramps have always been an issue with me.
I’ve followed the Nomad thread with great interest.
I’ve been in touch with Derek Kelsall and obtained his DVDs and course material from his KSS seminars. I thought this would help decode Rob Denney’s build methodology and choices. I’m struggling with the real estate and need for a large space for a laminating table for the infused panels. I’ve got a local marine composites shop willing to help me with hands-on training in their building process. Space (and distance) is a real issue for me. It needs to be heated, dry, lockable, about 60 amps of power service and at least 30x20 - and the city where I live there is no “cheap” commercial space to be found. I’ve got to budget $500-$1000 a month plus insurance just to have a place to work if I can’t do things in my garage in a few months once the temperature gets back on the right side of 0C.
Rob Denney has got some ideas I like from a build methodology perspective - I’m not as sold on his weight to windward take on Pacific Proas.
—
Bill
Skip
Regarding your advice to consider telescoping beams and avoiding tramps, what do you think of a solid platform to lay across the beams to strengthen the structure, to lock the beams open, and to avoid the complexity of rigging tramps? The platform need not be 100% solid if heeled wind load was a concern, but could help the system act as a torsion box with some amount of solid seating area, that could double as a sleeping platform. Straps could lash the platform to the beams.