What software do you use? (CAD)
Hi everyone!
I have been learning Solidworks this last week. I have hit a barrier when drawing and designing boats. I don´t feel paper and pencil is fast and easy enough to test and visualize my ideas. I have a friend working as a designer at Volvo here in Gothenburg, and he uses Catia. I asked him what I should use and he said Solidworks should suit me and my needs.
After two afternoons of watching tutorials on youtube and trying Solidworks I finally start to understand some simple basics in CAD.
I have seen a lot of nice pictures/drawings/sketches here on Proafile, and I must ask what software do you use and why?
I am interested in what alternatives there are and what is best to design and draw hulls and whole boats, both structural and visual?
I post a simple sketch I made. This is as far as I have come in about two short afternoons, - with no previous experience of CAD. (so please don´t laugh at me!)
Cheers,
Johannes
Johannes,
If you had never touch a 3D CAD software before and you are self taught, with some youtube videos, it is already pretty good!
I learn Catia when I was in engineering school, but never used it since. Let’s just say it was many-many moons ago…
I am using FreeSHIP because it is ... free. But I do not find it very intuitive. I tends to be buggy as well. For instance, to be able to run hydrostatic calculations, you have to give a “direction” to all surfaces; in other words, you have to tell the software where is the outside and where is the inside. In itself, this is not an issue, and it makes sense that you have to give this type of information. HOWEVER, I have found (the hard way) that once you go on the menu to get all the hydrostatic calculations done, the software will randomly “flip” some of those directions on some surfaces; so next time you go back to the hydrostatic menu, after a shape change and you want to see the impact, all the results are non-sense… You have to go back to each surface and check the direction to see which ones have been flipped and put them back to the right direction…. I guess you get what you paid for…. ;o)
I believe also that it is taking a completely different mathematical approach to define surfaces, compared to other 3D software… so not so good a thing in itself, to work across different platforms.
Browsing some forums, I came up with the impression that Rhino is supposed to be pretty good as well. Apparently, they also have an add-on specifically for boat design (called ORCA, I believe). You can look at boatdesign.net for some feedback. They have a forum specifically for software, if I remember well.
Cheers,
Laurent
Aloha,
for free surface designing Rhino 3d is by far the best value for money , it biggest advantage is the numerous plug-ins that you can add without software conflicts.
there friendly yearly costs are zero [unless upgrading to a newer version] All other software producers are asking large yearly sums for their service.
Orca is a good marine plug-in to Rhino, as is solve & scan help for engineering [although I use a way older system for hydrostatics Prolines Professional for the last 20years]
cheers Sven
I am now a full time dad, and really have no much opportunity to mess with real boats, so I recently started learning Rhino, and am very impressed with it. It has very good documentation strait from they’re site and it seems to be quite well geared for boat design.
The student license is good value, I though.
I’ve been going thru the manuals one or two hours a night when I can, and think I’m getting somewhere, even if still a long way to go…
cheers
Hugo
Hi everyone!
I have seen a lot of nice pictures/drawings/sketches here on Proafile, and I must ask what software do you use and why?I am interested in what alternatives there are and what is best to design and draw hulls and whole boats, both structural and visual?
I post a simple sketch I made. This is as far as I have come in about two short afternoons, - with no previous experience of CAD. (so please don´t laugh at me!)
Cheers,
Johannes
To answer your first question I primarily use Autocad (release 14) because it’s been my main design tool for over 30 years, starting with release 1.8 and stepping off the merry go round at release 14 when the ROI was no longer in my favor. I’ve also dabbled in Freeship and Laurent is right , it is quirky but well worth the price. Also am using sketchup, price is also right, and is fine for visuals but would be terrible for design.
To your second question, I think Sven is right, Rhino is the way to go. Many years ago I saw the handwriting on the wall regarding solid modelling being the future but it wasn’t mature enough to actually use in a small one man office. Almost jumped in with Rhino then, but just didn’t think I had the time to really get into it. Will say that McNeel and Associates is a first class organization, they were the source for some Autocad plugins (Facade & Accurender) that I used for years, good support and very cost effective.
Finally, you’re doing good, learning Cad especially alone has a steep initial learning curve, keep an open flexible mind and keep at it.
Cheers,
Skip
Thanks Laurent, Gearbox and Sven Stevens!!
It seems Rhino is good at modeling and drawing boats. I have searched google and boatdesign.net and I find a lot of people use Rhino. I already own Solidworks, and I will try to learn it before trying out Rhino.
I found this video on youtube, and I like the simplicity of Solidworks.
Wooden Boat Project: Designing the half hull model in Solidworks
Very nice picture gearbox! I hope I learn more soon. CAD seems to be a very versatile and powerful tool.
Cheers,
Johannes
Finally, you’re doing good, learning Cad especially alone has a steep initial learning curve, keep an open flexible mind and keep at it.
Thank you Skip!
I will try Rhino soon, but I will give Solidworks a couple of weeks first.
Since I already own it (expensive!!!) I intend to learn it for a lot of other stuff. Rhino seems better suited at boat-modeling.
Cheers,
Johannes
I use generally Autodesk Inventor, which is very similar to Solidworks. For designing the hull proper I tend to use Maxsurf, which does the hydrostatics calculations and is a good freeform surface modeller. I then import the surface model into Inventor to add structural details. If you were to learn Rhino, you would be able to import the surfaces into Solidworks in a similar way. Does Rhino do hydrostatics calculations?
Mal.
Does Rhino do hydrostatics calculations?
Mal.
I am just trying to learn the basic cad stuff for now, but you can check this; http://docs.mcneel.com/rhino/5/help/en-us/commands/hydrostatics.htm
cheers
Does Rhino do hydrostatics calculations?
Mal.
I am just trying to learn the basic cad stuff for now, but you can check this; http://docs.mcneel.com/rhino/5/help/en-us/commands/hydrostatics.htmcheers
Rhino 3d. Added with plug-in Orca does the job
Cheers Sven
Sounds like Rhino and Solidworks would be a good combo.
Rhino 3D and ORCA demo - Youtube
Orca3D
Rhino3D and ORCA seems like a powerful and versatile tool!
Thanks Sven Stevens! I will have to try this soon.
Sounds like Rhino and Solidworks would be a good combo.
I agree. The seem to compliment each other in many ways.
I hope one can export and import some common file-format between them without problems.
There is soo much to learn. Sometimes it feels like i am drowning under all the things i want to learn. The whole world is full of interesting stuff, and the pace of development is just accelerating. I need many lifetimes to study and learn everything i am curious about.
Johannes
In my professional life, I avoid Rhino. I’ve done lots of projects where real parts could not be cut from Rhino files. I’ve been told that there are “pinholes” in the surfaces that the CAM programs see, but we can’t. The result can be a part in the CNC machine that suddenly gets a cutter plunged through it.
There have also been fairness issues with Rhino—but that might have been from the universal cause of fairness issues—too many control points.
I watched a little of the half model Solidworks demo—and that has issues too. Whenever you loft ANYTHING you want continuous, fair splines. That guy was using lines IN his models. I put them on the outside of the spline, so that there’s nothing but spline to loft. There’s a big difference.
Here’s a project I worked on where rhino exploded and we had to make new, better solid works models to get tooling made.
https://chris-luomanen.squarespace.com/#/poly-steelcase/
That said, it does not do Hydrostatics or dynamics. So its not really a good designer’s tool
I’ve been playing with Freeship for a little bit now too. Very fun! but there’s a reason that solid works is “hard”. It doesn’t let you do things that leave gaps in surfaces or ar geometrically impossible. Others do.
Does anyone know what software the Bieker Proa was drawn in? That looks dope.
Chris
In my professional life, I avoid Rhino. I’ve done lots of projects where real parts could not be cut from Rhino files. I’ve been told that there are “pinholes” in the surfaces that the CAM programs see, but we can’t. The result can be a part in the CNC machine that suddenly gets a cutter plunged through it.
There have also been fairness issues with Rhino—but that might have been from the universal cause of fairness issues—too many control points.
I watched a little of the half model Solidworks demo—and that has issues too. Whenever you loft ANYTHING you want continuous, fair splines. That guy was using lines IN his models. I put them on the outside of the spline, so that there’s nothing but spline to loft. There’s a big difference.
Here’s a project I worked on where rhino exploded and we had to make new, better solid works models to get tooling made.
https://chris-luomanen.squarespace.com/#/poly-steelcase/
That said, it does not do Hydrostatics or dynamics. So its not really a good designer’s tool
I’ve been playing with Freeship for a little bit now too. Very fun! but there’s a reason that solid works is “hard”. It doesn’t let you do things that leave gaps in surfaces or ar geometrically impossible. Others do.
Does anyone know what software the Bieker Proa was drawn in? That looks dope.
Chris
Aloha Chris, Oeps where to start?
1.- To my knowledge Paul Bieker and Eric Jolley use Rhino as well. ( among other software)
2.- I operate both the CAD and the CAM software for my CNC machines , and have no problem with the “pinhole” as the right CAM software simply ignores these ( I use MadCam , a swedish developer) .
Pinholes in Rhino to my knowledge are software operator mistakes
By the way , any software package has certain mistakes in coding .........
2a. What specific projects went wrong, Chris?
3. Rhino too has some odd sudden mistakes. A quick save and restart solved the problem up to now,
Advice; put your automatic savetime to a minimum, say 5 to 10 minutes, and this to a dedicated place where you can pickup the crashed file again. Further the guys at Rhino doing the software service , are quick to solve your problem
Other point; a colleague bought the wrong computer setup( graphic card) and got a lot of issues with presenting the drawings on his screen. I run a heavy Dell laptop with dual screens, its splendid .
Fairness issues I had also , till I learned the right surface setting ,to export to the CNC area.
The thing is there are so many settings that its a study in itself, I learn every day…...
I mainly dislike other program because after initial purchase , they rip you of for each service year & upgrade.
Rhino is realistically prices , to a point I don,t understand how they can do it for so low prices.
For hydrostatic Prolines is a good deal…......
Cheers Sven
TouchCAD is the new version of the no more available Touch3D that I still use. Well worth a look.
http://www.algonet.se/~ludesign/
I would not recommend going the solidworks way as it’s 3D-concept is very “boxy” with quite limited free form 3D. Rhino is far superior in this respect. I have interacted with Rhino along a few projects. But I could not get myself to learn a new CAD as Touch and I are 1:1.
All new CADs are overloaded with stuff which, as already noticed, makes the initial learning very, VERY, demanding.
Slå en signal till Claes Lundström!
Anders
2.- I operate both the CAD and the CAM software for my CNC machines , and have no problem with the “pinhole” as the right CAM software simply ignores these ( I use MadCam , a swedish developer) .
Pinholes in Rhino to my knowledge are software operator mistakes
By the way , any software package has certain mistakes in coding .........2a. What specific projects went wrong, Chris?
I’m not saying it doesn’t work, but that I’ve personally had problems with it and been told about a lot more. Maybe its a MasterCam issue (this is the most common CAM software people I know use). We were making a mold for a large shell chair (think volcano lair and white cat) when on a finishing pass, the cutter plunged in and blew our schedule. The CAM operator told me that the error was because of pin holes. Totally could have been human error. And there are plenty of folks who will tell you ProE is the only thing that works and Solidworks is just a consumer toy.
I would actually be open to trying Rhino for boats based on your recommendation. If I can do Hydrostatics, drag calcs and the like, that would be interesting.
What do you do about the thicknesses of parts in a surface modeler, Sven? Does Rhino flatten panels easily? That’s something Solidworks doesn’t like to do—but will in sheet metal settings if you know your “k” values and all that.
Chirs