Hello Malolo
I got a new set built by Phil’s foil (or now CCI, I believe). Cost me an arm and a leg, but I live now in an appartment, and if I do this type of work at home, I get a formal complain from my lovely neighbors…
Good luck on the repair,
Laurent
Laurent:
Dave and Phil at CCI have been willing in the past to partially complete items for me. I’ve had them CNC foil blanks - and stop after the CNC milling was done. I handled the work gluing up the blanks BEFORE milling and AFTER the messy part that neighbours complain about. The cost was a fraction of a completed foil. As long as you know what you want and can supply Phil with DXF CAD files, he’s capable of doing the hard part.
In my case they did the NACA foil shaping - including channels cut vertically into the base foil. I put carbon uni in the channels, bringing the surface back to level with the uni - then glassed the foils once carbon reinforced. They have gotten more structured in the past couple years, so may be less flexible (and more expensive) than the past. I live local to them (and have sailed with them) as they are here in Ottawa. They are very nice guys and serious sailors as well. Dave has done the Sydney-Hobart and is a competitive I-14 sailor as well as a 505 sailor. Phil sailed Fireballs competitively as well as sportboats. Phil started the Fireball foil business in his garage when Nortel was downsized - he was originally a telecom engineer - Dave was at Cognos.
—
Bill in Ottawa
The rudder was a Goat Island Skiff copy of my own design. It sheared right through the solid wood spacer between the cnced plywood cheeks, and took the tiller with it.
My design, my fault!
My design, my fault!
When people look at my boat on the beach and ask me what it is, who built it, etc… my answer is:
“I designed it, I built it, I sail it; if something goes wrong, I know who to blame…
but if it works, I know who to praise!”
The rudder was a Goat Island Skiff copy of my own design. It sheared right through the solid wood spacer between the cnced plywood cheeks, and took the tiller with it.
My design, my fault!
Mik Storer specs a bolt thru that particular area of his rudder assemblies, may be via experience.
Thanks for posting, now I’ll have to find something else to break and learn from.
Cheers,
Skip
So true, Skip! Gary Dierking’s example on this post does too!
I guess mine will soon as well.
One nice and unexpected feature is that when the whole kit and caboodle blows up, its wrapped in bungee cords. I didn’t loose anything.
Best,
Chris
I was out on SF Bay yesterday and witnessed some pretty appalling mast bend. Messing around with the downhaul helped, but in a gust, that thing was bending like a fishing pole with a big un’ on the line. I built all of the spars to CLC’s specs out of clear doug fir. But, as it turns out, my outrigger canoe with hiking seats has WAY more righting moment than the little pram the rig was designed for.
I’m going to glass the mast to stiffen it up, and I saw Duckworks has 10oz and 15 oz sleeve material available. Anyone have any experience using this stuff? Any thoughts on which weight to go with? Is it worth it to find carbon sleeve? Many thanks!
Chris
I was out on SF Bay yesterday and witnessed some pretty appalling mast bend. Messing around with the downhaul helped, but in a gust, that thing was bending like a fishing pole with a big un’ on the line. I built all of the spars to CLC’s specs out of clear doug fir. But, as it turns out, my outrigger canoe with hiking seats has WAY more righting moment than the little pram the rig was designed for.
I’m going to glass the mast to stiffen it up, and I saw Duckworks has 10oz and 15 oz sleeve material available. Anyone have any experience using this stuff? Any thoughts on which weight to go with? Is it worth it to find carbon sleeve? Many thanks!
Chris
Duckworks braided sleeve is good stuff and s pleasure to work with, it’s worthwhile to watch Chuck’s homegrown videos on applying sleeve and more importantly compressing same.
That being said, if I was going to really stiffen up a mast I’d go with a carbon sleeve. Best place I know to get same is soller composites http://www.solarcomposites.com/ also a good outfit.
cheers,
Skip
0oz and 15 oz sleeve material available. Anyone have any experience using this stuff? Any thoughts on which weight to go with? Is it worth it to find carbon sleeve?
Chris,
I would go for the lightest carbon sleeve you can get: minimum weight and (extra) cost. If it still isn’t stiff enough (unlikely) you can always put a second carbon sleeve on.
Rob
Chris,
I would go for the lightest carbon sleeve you can get: minimum weight and (extra) cost. If it still isn’t stiff enough (unlikely) you can always put a second carbon sleeve on.
Rob
I’m not sure that’s right. The carbon is stiffer enough than the fir that the carbon will take all the stress until it breaks. The glass wood combo work fairly well together but not carbon/wood. Best bet would be to pick a sleeve thickness that will handle the bending stress of maximum hiking and let the deflection be what it will be (far less than the fir I suspect).
Cheers,
Skip
I’m not sure that’s right. The carbon is stiffer enough than the fir that the carbon will take all the stress until it breaks. The glass wood combo work fairly well together but not carbon/wood.
I bow to your greater experience with wood Skip,
My only observation being that there are lots of carbon repairs / reinforcement on all sorts of things, even for over deflecting concrete beams, and the carbon bit (which is tiny by comparison to a concrete beam section) can’t possibly take all the load and fail…....
It also depends on how much residual bend Chris wants afterwards as well?
Rob
Carbon has a much higher modulus than wood, so the carbon will take nearly all the load and must be designed to do that. If you put carbon over a wooden structure, the wood becomes redundant, apart from acting as a frame to hold the carbon in shape.
In the case of a concrete beam, the steel reinforcing in the beam will have a modulus which is closer to that of the carbon, so it will share some of the load. Even so, if the carbon is applied to the outside of the beam, on the tension side, it will probably still end up taking most of the load. Carbon is way stronger than concrete, so you need very little of it in comparison. The advantage of concrete is that it is cheap, so you can use lots of it!
Mal.
Thanks for the explanation Mall, Sorry Skip…..
Rob
Some numbers of Youngs Modulus taken from Wikipedia (Gpa)
Youngs modulus - Wikipedia
Carbon fiber reinforced plastic (70/30 fibre/matrix, unidirectional, along grain) 181
Steel (ASTM-A36) 200
Aluminum 69
Titanium alloys 105–120
High-strength concrete 30
Glass-reinforced polyester matrix 17.2 (- Bad!!!)
Plywood Flexural Modulus, 8.2 - 10.3 GPa (from http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheetText.aspx?bassnum=PTSPLY )
Cheers,
Johannes
I made the mast pretty precisely to the plans that came with the sail. But I’m guessing that a CLC passage maker dinghy (for which the sail was designed) does not have the RM of my canoe with my fairly massive self out on the end of the hiking seat. I also have a 5:1 downhaul/vang that can REALLY develop a lot of tension easily.
Turns out that the decision about what to do was pretty easy to make. The extreme taper of my square section mast (4.25"on a side to 1.25”) meant that there was only one carbon sleeve that would work—a 5” biaxial sleeve. And its pretty heavy.
If that doesn’t work, its off to buy an aluminum tube.
I’d tell you that I’ll keep you up to date, but there may be no forum when I get this project done….
chris
If that doesn’t work, its off to buy an aluminum tube.
If you use a high strength Duplex stainless steel (EN 10088-3 1.4462 X2CrNiMoN22-5-3
ASTM A182F51), you can have a more stiff and almost as light mast, but with a thinner cross-section with less drag, then the aluminum part.
It will probably cost a little more, but here in Sweden 1.4462 has about 150% of the price per kg as 6063 Aluminum.
Cheers,
Johannes