Hello from Denmark
Hi everyone,
I´m Steen from Denmark, and I just decided to stop lurking and join in. But the thing is – being a greenhorn proageek – I don´t have much to contribute with. I´ve never sailed a proa, nor have I ever even seen one in real life. But I´m going to do something about it! Attached you´ll find my sketch for the proa I plan to build, and of course I´d like your comments.
I have a little workshop and I´ve been designing and building custommade kayaks for some years now, and recently I´ve been sketching on a small trimaran that I hope to build one day. Now – while waiting to win the lottery – I´ve decided to make myself a proa and actually get on the water. To make things a little easier I set up a simple rule for the design: Choosing between different options allways choose the cheapest. And here is what I came up with:
El Cheapo – 24´ proa
Weight: 200 kg
Displ: 440 kg
Draft: 30 cm
SA: 20 spm, crabclaw
P.C: 0,63
Hull: 4mm ply with 200g glass in- and outside and two layers outside bottom, four wrc stringers each side.
9 bulkheads, deck and bottom - all 6 mm.
Ama 4mm with 200 g glass outside.
Mast spars and iakos – all hollow.
I considered hard chined, cylinder mold and tortured from two sheets. Then I found this link on Garys blog: http://sailnaway.blogspot.com/2011_08_01_archive.html. This skilled bloke built his Mosquito trimaran with three sheets instead of two. The sheets only need mild torture and he´s assembling the hull without a deckjig – very clever! Of course I decided to go for this method, only I do not need very much curvature, if I leave the bottom flat and narrow, so I hope to be able to bending the hullsides into shape without having to spend too much time on fitting the pre-cut bulkheads – and of course I hope to get the hullshape that I actually designed.
Keep wondering if the skin is too flimsy, but then again - I want my proa light and cheap, and I doubt, if it would be possible to bend a 6mm plate into shape at all?
The design itself is mostly inspired from Harmen´s Toroa which I find very beautiful, and there is really nothing new to it. I´ll have a somewhat chined hull, but I will not have to remove 10000 stables, and regarding sanding; I really only like sanding when its done!
In Gary´s fine book I read about the Gibbon/Dierking-rig, and I came up with the idea of a reefable version, with a lower CE. Now I see Mike has already drawn the same idea on his Te-Pookie. Well I´ve learned a lot from reading about Mike´s experiences with the so obvious Bolger-rig, so first I will put a crabclaw on the Cheapo, then – if none of you guys will warn me off – I´ll try the big windsurfer sail.
Can anyone tell me if there will be a big difference in placing the mast on the windward cockpitcoam instead of the sheer?
Thanks for this great site, Mike.
B.t.w: Is there any Danes in the forum?
Cheers
Fra Danmark eh?
With a name like “Tom Ditlev Sorensen” there’s a chance I might be a Dane 😉
I even have a brother named Sten who spells it Steen so people in America will pronounce it correctly.
My parents immigrated and I was born here, but I still keep aakvavit in the freezer and enjoy making fun of Swedes 😉 I can speak Danish fairly well, but can’t spell or write.
Welcome to the forum,
Tom
Thanks Tom.
Yep - you´re a dane for sure - skål!
Steen
Welcome to the forum, Steen. Not Danish, but I’ve visited, seen the Little Mermaid, etc. Lovely place.
A lovely proa and drawing, also. Have you shown El Cheapo to Harmen? I’m sure he would enjoy it.
Mast placement: Stepping the mast on the windward sheer is the traditional spot, however, I can how if you stepped it to ww you would free up some space in the cockpit for three crew. Also, the fore and aft running stays might then work as shrouds to keep the mast up in the event of getting caught aback - a good thing! I don’t know if it would change the function or performance of the rig, though. Anyone else?
I contacted Harmen and had a very friendly mail back.
He agrees with Michael on the mast stepping, so I´ll definetely place it on the
ww coam and get the free space and the better hold from the stays.
Hi Steen,
I send you a link to a thread outside. Just for inspiration what can be done with Tortured Plywood. I know its a quite long thread, but for sure you will get some confidence in TP and its possibilities.
Good Luck for your project, Michel
Hi Michel
Great!
Erhmm… can´t really find the link, and I´m very curious…
I´m still working on my small trimaran, so nothing has happend with the Cheapo-project.
I´ve decided though, that the hull sides will be 6 instead of 4mm, and I´m leaning towards the Wharram
“persuasion” philosophy. Maybe I´ll get a flatter curve, but curved it will be.
Thank you very much for your response.
Cheers
Steen
Hi Michel
Great!
Erhmm… can´t really find the link, and I´m very curious…I´m still working on my small trimaran, so nothing has happend with the Cheapo-project.
I´ve decided though, that the hull sides will be 6 instead of 4mm, and I´m leaning towards the Wharram
“persuasion” philosophy. Maybe I´ll get a flatter curve, but curved it will be.
Thank you very much for your response.
Cheers
Steen
Hi Steen…
oouuppss!!!!
Try this with copy and paste. I have some difficulties with posting extra stuff like insert links and so on. My pc is reallly old
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/alternative-marvelous-buccaneer-24-a-32382.html
You said you are on a tight budged, perhaps we should talk private, because I have some really cheap concepts on my drawing board. Perhaps you have seen my “New life for old Hobie 18” thread or my “backpackers cruising boat” here at proafile. I always have a big heart for cheap solutions. And you are living in demnark, we are neighbours and could work together. Not only the virtual way, but real. Where are you at home in Denmark?
I’am currently building a 30’ trimaran, having tortured ply amas. Take a look at my introduction.
Best Regards, Michel
Hi Michel
Wauw, what a skilled boatbuilder - a plywood artist I would say.
Sorry I took so long answering, I´ve been bussy in my workshop finishing a 1:4
test/presentation model of my outrigger/trimaran because there´s a small chance
I´ll get a prototype on the water by selling advertising space on the boat. (Still haven´t won the lottery).
Yes I´d like to work together, but right now I am up to my ears with this project.
I live on the contryside near the small habourcity Faaborg on the island funen.
We have a wonderful seaside south of Funen with lots os small islands and sheltered waters.
Why don´t you sail up here next summer in your new trimaran? You´re most welcome at my place.
Cheers
Hi Steen,
yes, you are right, Gary is a man with tremendous experience in boatbuilding, design and aero-/ hydrodynamics. .And a very nice guy too. If you ask him something related, he sends you an helpful answer.
Ive been to the danish south sea a couple of times, very nice area. I feel a little sorry for you that it is so crowded by “unexperiencedbutbigmouth-german-charter-crews”.
No need to hurry, I always have limited time too to power up my project. I have to earn money too. I hope you will get your sponsor, but don’t expect to much and do it on your own otherwise.
Your Tri looks good, how long and wide is it? Will the real one have a cabin? Is it a chined boat ... seems to be from the photo?
Best Regards, Michel
...its 7 x 5 meters, no cabin, sharpie hulls a little v´eed fore. I think of it more like an outrigger and a “get-away-from-crowd-boat”. With the shallow draft (22 cm), I can take it to the remote places I normally have only acces to by kayak The weight should land on 280 kg and have a 560 kg displacement.
I know this is not a forum for trimarans, and I´ll be back on the Cheapo proa project soon. Right now I´m simply having an affair with an outrigger!
Cheers
Steen
Hi Steen,
whouw, 7 x 5 Meter, thats a lot for a “get away from crowd boat”. I see a lot of similarities to my tri design project ... “new life for old Hobie 18”.
It’s no problem if you talk Trimaran here on the Forum. If you want to place your tri project here on the Forum, put it into the “General” Forum, there is the tolerated place for the “No Proa Topic”!.
Best Regards, Michel