Hi everybody
Building Nixe goes on quite fast. We started 09.08.12, the Ama just needs painting and the plywood of the sides for the mainhull is cut. Even when it’s rainy season in Thailand now and we only have a tent with no sides it is not that bad. Yesterday was one of the bad days, rain and strong wind several times a day so we could only try to protect the plywood. But today we joined the two hull sides with nylon and tomorrow we will turn it around to the right side glue on the sheerclamp and spread out the sides.
On the fotos you see the ama before decking with bulkheads and deckbeams and the bulkheads to fix the beams later. The other one is from today, showing the still flat sides of the mainhull glued together with black nylon, left of it the ama. The third is a drawing I made how she will look when finished.

Today we spreaded the hullsides and glued the sheerstrake on. On the picture you can see the ama beside the still brown mainhull. After the hullsides are squeezed in the bows will come down and the hull will have the same appearance as the ama, just bigger.
Alexander

Wow, that is fast progress in less than a month. I’m very interested in this boat, it’s very close to what I visualize a small cruising proa to be - inexpensive, quick to build, fast, comfortable and last but not least, handsome. I look forward to hearing about the details.

It took us nearly a day to build the frame to hold the plywoodshell in the form it has to be. But now the sides are bent in, the bows have moved down a bit and today we have drawn lines inside where the bulkheads have to be, glassed the inside and have cut out the part of the bulkheads under the floorboards so we can glue them in on monday and lay the floor. Then we can easily walk inside the hull and build the rest

Cheers
Alexander

Any pics of the first proa too?

Amazing progress! Thanks for the updates.

On one picture you can see the construction of the separation of the water tanks under the floor.
On the other the floor is glued, inspectionholes will be done. The half bulkhead in the back is the frontside of the doublebunk (1.60m at head, 85cm at feet, 2.00m long). All bulkheads are just temporarly fixed and need to be glued in with filler and fiberglass belt. The temporary beams will be removed as soon as the deckbeams are glued in.

How do you join the ply sheets?

Hi Mark

The plywood pannels are scarfed. For each side we joined two rows of 6 pannels and joined these long pieces together. The plywood is 8 mm, the scarf 10 cm wide.

Cheers
Alexander

Thanks, From your excellent photos it did look as they where butt jointed. Does the hull get a full sheathing of glass / epoxy both inside and outside?

DESIGN
I like very much what I see from your sketch, looks beautifully clean and simple. 
- I take it that there is no lee-pod?  Are there other measures to resist capsize, or are you just a carefull sailor.
- Any chance of seeing an internal layout?
- Was the structure fully engineered? 
Mark

Hi Mark
The hull will be sheated with glass mats outside completely and inside where the rudders are. Also the under water part of the hull is glassed. The ama is glassed only on the outside.

There is no leepod. It is a lot of work and adds weight where I don’t want it. There is enough space inside the hull for two people to make cruises. The double bunk is over 1.60 wide, that’s enough for my wife and me (I love her).
Because the hull is 2.40m wide at the widest point it is a rounded V-form and when heeled around 60 degrees she will float on her side, the water tanks will act as ballast and she will slide sideways and keep about course. That’s what I think, I can not calculate this. When a proa with a leepod heels and the leepod gets in the water it will act like a brake. The boat will be turned around it with strong power. Sitting or maybe laying in the cockpit then could hurt you. I never read about experiences with a leepod in a near capsize, these are just my thoughts. I am quite a careful sailor. I don’t race and I am aware of the responsability for my passenger. Before I make longer trips I will test the boat in protected waters in different wind conditions. As she is a prototype for shure there will be changes maybe in the rigging, the rudders or elswhere.

For the interior I did not make a drawing like the one showing the boat from outside I posted. But end of the next week the bulkheads and deckbeams will be in place, so the interior will be visible. There is a cabin with the double bunk and two lockers on one end, the toilet and shower on the other end. Between will be the pantry (80cm wide on both sides), chart table (80cm), ladder, seats and table for four (130cm) and 4 lockers (40cm wide from floor to deck). Between the heads and the bulkhead separating the rudders is a storage space for sailing gear with access from the deck. The space between the rudders and the bows will be foamed, also some parts under the floorboards to make her floatig high even when the hull is cracked.

Cheers

Alexander

Alexander,
thanks for your reply, great to hear form someone actually ‘doing it’  (I have just sold my Hirondelle cat, so a proa is next, unfortunately there is a house renovation to finish, especially if I still wish to have a wife to share my bunk!)

CONSTRUCTION
I would glass inside and out.  2 reasons: Mainly to make sure the surface is completely sealed. Also because the main tension force is on the inner face.
What is construction, ie ply thickness you have given,  how about the glass sheating?  Did you have an Engineer to design this? 

LEE POD
Reading about Jzerro Madness etc, the lee pod is no problem with tripping, turning or slamming. I guess if you do not push too hard it is not required, though if single-handing probably a good idea.  You can always add one later.  I have had thoughts of using a dinghy sized proa as a third hull / lee pod.

RUDDERS
What are you going for?  (suppose I should await the photos)  After many considerations I think it is hard to beat the Newick-Cheers type.

DECK SHELTER
What is this made from.  I would go for a pram hood type, canvas on an aluminium frame.  It can be part up as a dodger, 3/4 up for a shelter, and full y enclosed in harbour.

Cheers Mark

Hi Mark

Nice to hear from you again.
Construction: Outside we will glass the whole hull and deck with mats. the edges where the deck and the hullsides meet will also get a stripe of woven glass. Inside the boat under the floorboard and all that is not living space is also glassed.
No, I had no engineer to calculate it. But I compared to other boats built in the same system (stressform or tortured plywood). Gougeon Brothers built a 10.70 m trimaran with 7 mm plywood. I build a 12 m proa with 8 mm plywood and I use more bulkheads and stringers than they used. Whatever other people may think, for me this is enough. All furnitures will add strength as they are epoxied (filler) to the hullside and glassed in some parts. (see picture). In the end all will get a wood trim around the edges to stiffen them and screw the hinges for the locker doors to. That will not break and is still light. It reminds of honeycomb.

Lee pod: No, I don’t want one. I am not afraid of capsizing. In the beginning of the catamaran sailing a lot of sailors had the opinion they are dangerous because they can capsize. Now it’s the proa. The pacific proa has less weight to windward than a catamaran but also less sail area. Handle it right and she will not capsize or not more than a catamaran.

Rudders: There is a sketch in my thread “Kleinnixe”. I use the same system. On Kleinnixe it worked fine. Only when I have to pull the rudders a bit inside I cannot steer with them, then they are just daggerboards. As they are close to the bows and I can use them together I can adjust them to steer them by trim. Also I can use the outboard or a yuloh.

Deck shelter: In the sketch at the beginning of this thread there is a small deckhouse at the end of the cockpit just to sit in comfortably for two people. I want to steer from there in bad weather. I also want a sun awning of cloth and steel frames I can flip down in strong winds. Here in Southeast Asia that is really necessary. It is no fun to sit in the sun the whole day long.

I hope I could answer your questions well enough. And you maybe just start building. If something does not work properly you can always change it, you built the whole boat before.

Cheers
Alex

Alexander
many thanks again for sharing time and experience, (isn’t the internet just great)

CONSTRUCTION
I believe that Russ Brown designed largely by intuition, and has produced some great boats.  The pacific proa type lends it self to this, with all the stresses concentrated in the relatively large main hull.  (though not sure about the slender lee hull of the Harryproa type)  She sure looks strong enough with all those honeycombe shelves.

LEE POD
I am with your reasoning, an unessesary complication, certainly for a boat of this size and intended use.  As you say the proa is easily driven, so can go well with a smaller lower sail.  “Des Jours Meilleurs” has crossed the Atlantic a couple of times and has none. 

RUDDERS
Thanks for pointing me back to your sketch.  the spade type rudder / dagger will be more efficient and I do like the lack of board sticking above the deck.  The down side is that the construction is more dificult, and the shaft needs to be pretty strong.

Cheers Mark (from cold wet Scotland)

Hi Mark

I am sorry that Scotland is so cold and wet. I know that from Switzerland if maybe not in a degree as you have it. But I must say, on pictures Scotland looks always very beautiful and romantic. If one only can have that with coldness and rain so it be.
I agree with you that the stresses are concentrated in the mainhull. If that is stronger built than a trimaran mainhull it will be o.k. (and yes, Harryproas are different).
One of the reasons I build this boat (exept from “I want a proa” and “I want a faster boat”) is that I realised I don’t need that much space as I had in my boat before. In 12 years I used the second cabin only 7 times and I also could have slept in the cockpit while the guest takes my cabin. That is not worth sailing an empty cabin around. So I found I don’t need a 11.70m yacht, but a 12m proa. In there now is exactly the living space my wife and me need. In a hull without a leepod. In a hull that is easily to build and is strong by its form. If really desired, the interior could be changed to have one more bunk for the cost of a smaller shower or omitting a 80cm space between 2 bulkheads I will use for storage of sailing gear, tools, spare parts.
Rudders: I did not want to have something sticking out of the foredeck. It takes space where I will have to work (anchoring, sail change), a rope could get around it and it does not look good in my eyes. They seem to work good no doubt. I have chosen free standing rudders so I can use them both to make very small circles (in a marina or in emergency situations) to manoevre the boat or to stop it. The daggerboard rudders have a skeg, they also could be made like my rudders (not protruding). It is just to choose what one prefers. You are right, the pipe inside the rudder has to be strong. My rudders are 90cm x 65cm and have a stainless steel pipe of 5cm diameter inside. If that is enough if a hit a submerged container with 12 knots I will see when I hit one. If it is bent that much I can not use it no more I can take out the whole rudder, fit in a spare one or sail back where I came from on the other bow or use the yuloh or the outboard. That’s more possibilities than a usual cruising yacht has.
The construction is only more complicated as the rudder stock is not the same as the tiller stock (so to say) but a separate one. That is not a lot more. And if you count the work for the trunk, the wheel or tiller system and the daggerboard/rudder, the additional work is small. On the other hand the tiller is always in the same place, adjustments for the wheel or tiller extentions are none.
There are many pros and cons about this and that rudder, sail system, beam to length ratio and so on. I think that is because there are not many proas over 7 meters built and so there are not many experiences only theories. With keel yachts a lot is clear because you find a keel yacht for every theory. So what we have to do now is building. Then we will see what is real. I know not everybody has the money to build a boat. But as far as I see I will end up with less than 40’000 US. Cheap enough for a 12m proa.

Cheers
Alex

Just the latest pictures. One showing the rudder trunk. The stainless rail will guide the rudder, one side of the trunk is not yet glued in, just half way down for showing. The other picture shows the seats. Between will be a folding table, behind is the toilet and shower.
Cheers
Alexander