TP03 - lug rig schooner proa with adjustable leeboard
Physio working well on shoulder, just finished the last job bolting the two final cleats to the seating platform. I have fixed the day I take it up to the club as 25th on May and firmly fixed it on the family calendar. Second picture is the pile of ‘stuff’ that needs transporting 30 miles. As I have never full built him up not sure if I will launch on the 25th.
Good luck, looks like you are making some good progress
I’m envious.
The Bionic Broomstick is on hold for the moment, I’ve got my own shoulder issue currently, a paddling companions’ exploding camp stove blew me back and breaking fall with outstretched arm did a number on right shoulder. I think I may have to go the trailer route also, the chance I’ll be able to lift most the bits on the Elements roof rack any time soon is kinda questionable. MRI on Tuesday.
Best wishes on your initial outing, there is joy in the doing and the learning.
Skip
I’m envious.
The Bionic Broomstick is on hold for the moment, I’ve got my own shoulder issue currently, a paddling companions’ exploding camp stove blew me back and breaking fall with outstretched arm did a number on right shoulder. I think I may have to go the trailer route also, the chance I’ll be able to lift most the bits on the Elements roof rack any time soon is kinda questionable. MRI on Tuesday.
Best wishes on your initial outing, there is joy in the doing and the learning.
Skip
Hi Skip
Hope the MRI goes well and your recovery is swift. I am getting cheesed off, or my body is shouting louder, with injuries. Due to my shoulder I have been quite immobile and now due to lack of exercise my ankle is now playing up from a previous injury.
The trailer is a mother of necessity, I have a glass roof to my car and a roof low rack limit, it doesn’t have a tow bar. We don’t have a roof rack for my wife’s car but it as a tow bar. Even within the weight limit the proa would all go nicely on the my roof rack (not bad for a 16ft craft) but the trolley was built by Brunell, very over engineered.
Loading up the trailer has galvanised my resolve to develop the minimal proa.
In preparation for next week end I over stressed my shoulder cutting the lawns, this is the UK so tiny postage stamp lawns, cutting with a little electric mower. The day after my ‘launch’ we take our eight year old daughter to Euro Disney, I have been given very firm instructions not to take any risks. I will move the boat up to the club but the weather will dictate if he is launched! Sailing may be delayed two weeks.
Regardless I will post some pictures
Good luck with Bionic Broomstick
Cheers
TINK
Did not quite make it to the water but what a fantastic day. TP03 all assembled and ready to sail. I have big family commitments next week and could not risk my shoulder. Only couple of issues, the anchor point for the sail downhaul needed moving down 6inches and the seating platform is very slipy and needs some anti slip. Other than that all worked very well. Plan to launch in two weeks
Did not quite make it to the water but what a fantastic day. TP03 all assembled and ready to sail. I have big family commitments next week and could not risk my shoulder. Only couple of issues, the anchor point for the sail downhaul needed moving down 6inches and the seating platform is very slipy and needs some anti slip. Other than that all worked very well. Plan to launch in two weeks
Tink,
It seems well thought through and well built! Looking forward to sailing results.
2 questions for clarification:
I see that your main sheet for the aft sail is going directly and only to windward on the beam. I was considering something like this or a mix of “conventional” (i.e. sheet going to a block on the main hull, like for a regular mainsail sheet) and your set up. Basically a 2 purchase sheet with anchor point on the beam (or ama), then going to a block on the boom and then down on the last block on the main hull. This way, you can sheet in really hard the aft sail, without too much stress on the sheet. Here is the question: I do not see the cleat on this sheet. Is it going to be ***behind*** you, on the block on the beam? Or do you have one more block and cleat to bring the sheet in front of you?
For the ama to aka attachment, I see that you use both lines (red ropes) and ratchets. Can you explain how it works? Over the years, I simplified my set up to ratchets only. I made a “saddle” on the ama, with a small hole for a locator pin on the beam to get into, and just wrap the beam and the saddle together with 2 ratchets and straps. It never moves while sailing. If you are thoughtful, you get stainless steel ratchets… or you spray WD40 on the mechanism twice a year, like I do…
Cheers,
Laurent
I see that your main sheet for the aft sail is going directly and only to windward on the beam. I was considering something like this or a mix of “conventional” (i.e. sheet going to a block on the main hull, like for a regular mainsail sheet) and your set up. Basically a 2 purchase sheet with anchor point on the beam (or ama), then going to a block on the boom and then down on the last block on the main hull. This way, you can sheet in really hard the aft sail, without too much stress on the sheet. Here is the question: I do not see the cleat on this sheet. Is it going to be ***behind*** you, on the block on the beam? Or do you have one more block and cleat to bring the sheet in front of you?
To answer the question about sheeting from behind, I was running out of time and my fittings where a long walk back to the car away. Thanks for reminding me I will put it on the job list. I have some ‘Madness’ style main sheet anchor point outriggers (the ears of wood at bow/stern are for their attachment) but I was keeping it simple to start with.
For the ama to aka attachment, I see that you use both lines (red ropes) and ratchets. Can you explain how it works? Over the years, I simplified my set up to ratchets only. I made a “saddle” on the ama, with a small hole for a locator pin on the beam to get into, and just wrap the beam and the saddle together with 2 ratchets and straps. It never moves while sailing. If you are thoughtful, you get stainless steel ratchets… or you spray WD40 on the mechanism twice a year, like I do…
Cheers,
Laurent
Short answer, very well, each attachment is a matter of seconds. The answer you actual want is a little longer. As a starting point a little history because they are a a result of what I had before and not possibly what a would do from scratch. On the hulls there are 10mm bolts protruding out of the hull with a plastic spacer and a large penny washer. This creates a lug - hull, spacer, penny washer, bolt head. These work very well. On TP02 I just used traditional lashings though eyes on the beams.
In the ratchet version the red line is formed into a continuous strop which goes around the bolt/lug. On the outboard end it goes though the original eyes to turn it from vertical pull to horizontal. Webbing for the ratchet loops around the inboard end. At the other side because I did not have the eyes there already, and just to try something new, I made another lug from a bolt, spacer and washer. The red line does the same thing and runs through the fixed end of the ratchet. Fitting is simplicity it’s self. The two red lines are looped around the lugs on the hull, the webbing attached to the ratchet and tighten. I gave everything a very good shake and it all seams fine.
The ratchets are stainless as after a good bit of searching on line I found a great deal.
Thanks
TINK
Very exciting too see your proa all ready to sail!
Very nice built and good looking. I like that yu did not use the thinnest lightest of everything. The proa looks like it can stand a fair bit of use without breaking a sweat.
Im looking forward to seeing it sail!!!
Thanks for posting youtube vids. They always give a much better and more detailed view.
What is your thought behind the V-shaped rocker on your ama?
Cheers,
Johannes
What is your thought behind the V-shaped rocker on your ama?
Cheers,
Johannes
Thanks for the kind comments Johannes
Thought you might like the Ama, the idea was max volume for minimal size, when I designed it it was for an all out speed machine. I had visions of trapezing off the gunwale and it planing during the occasional touch down. Not sure how it will perform on a slower craft, time will tell
TINK
I’ve been reading all the history of your proa, fascinating process!
It ended up fairly similar to my “Proud Mary”, and I think it will be interesting to compare results of the few different solutions we came up with.
I’m particularly interested in your results with the adjustable leeboard, as I have plans for something similar if I need to reduce leeway on my proa.
I hope you recover quickly, and that soon we can have your reports of the maiden voyage.
Good luck, and have fun in the water!
TP03 first and possibly last sail,
Disaster, Fantastic and finally catastrophe
In short, in light winds the ama wants to constantly turn and position itself to leeward, I think this is due to its high drag relative to the vaka. I WOULD VALUE OPINIONS ON THIS THEORY. I moved the seating platform in towards the vaka so immersed the ama less. In this configuration, things where much improved, though still many issues. In more breeze, like this, it would sail like a rocket, steer with the sails and board and shunt instantly, absolutely awesome. On one of my high speed runs a gust hit me and as I ran out of seating platform and failed to release the tangled sheets I capsized. I ended up falling backwards off the end of the seating platform and landing on the windward side of the vaka causing a hole / crack from gunwale to chine. No damage to me thankfully.
Below is a detailed rambling full account, more for my cathartic purposes.
Firstly a description the sailing area, where I launch from is a bay about 1/2 mile wide. From left to right there is a buoyed off area for fishing (the fishermen and the sailors don’t have a good relationship at the best of times) a jetty for rescue boats and training, a beach with with two slips for launching, a rocky spit and a buoyed off bird sanctuary. The beach area is about 400 yards long. There was a light breeze no more than f2 inshore and f3 out in the lake, the wind was coming about 45 degrees to the shore from the left. Within this restricted water there were about 6 large dinghies with novices sailing from the jetty and beach reaching across the bay and out to the right and back again. From the beech there were about ten kids in optimists doing similar plus about another five boats in various stages of launching.
Introduce a sixteen by eight foot untested and uncontrollable proa and you can imagine disaster will occur.
I had done the sheeting modifications from previous posts.
Now the actual sailing. In the very light conditions to get going I found I had to sail with the fore sail sheeted, the board as far back as possible and the aft sail slack. Once I had a bit of speed up a could sheet the aft sail a little, anyway I somehow managed to get off the beach and through all the traffic like this. As I attempted a shunt I ended up with the ama wrong sided i.e. to leeward, AMS. Despite two sails in the light breeze he was a pig to get back to proper Pacific mode. At the point this seating platform put my weight about 3 ft from the vaka and loading up the ama. Anyway I managed to eventually shunt and return to shore.
Bit of a head scratch and good think and off again. Same thing happened bit more thinking. I did a few more runs, once lightly hitting a terrified young optimist sailor on the quarter, no damage done. I decided that I needed to bear away more and become side on to the wind before shunting. This seamed to work a bit better and I was starting to work my way up the lake and away from all the other boats. Quite chuffed with every thing I was over on the left hand side and tried shunting. Ended up AMS sailing uncontrollably into the fishing area, not a good thing at all. To say the fisherman was not happy was an understatement, tried to apologise but to this fisherman sailing boats are a menace and what I was attempting todo cut no mustard. Anyway un shipped the sails and dragged the boat around the jetty and back to the beach.
Lunch and more thinking. After lunch I went to the right hand side of the lake and in three foot of water played with the sails etc and tried to figure my next move.
I finally decided that the ama was causing more drag than the vaka causing the boat to luff and eventually tack and become AMS. Sitting on the seating platform without the sails I was quite evident how much load I was putting on to the ama and how immersed it was. I moved the seating platform as far towards the vaka as possible and this improved things greatly. A few tweaks of the sail and I was off again, the optimists had gone in for a rest. Things seamed better, there also was a bit more of a breeze and I was grinning from ear to ear as I overhauled a windsurfer who shouted I was going like a train. I was finally in clear water and working myself up the lake. The board was still a bit back but I could sail well pretty close hauled with both sails hauled in and the ama close to flying. Shunting was fast and effortless, bear away a little, release all the sails, pull board to the new aft, sheet front sail, get some speed and pull in aft sail. When things started to go wrong and I started to go AMS I could haul the front sail to windward by the boom, right over the seating platform and the bow would bear away and recover.
Part 2 to follow
Part 2
At this point with the seating platform so close in the various lines where a bit of a mess and this eventually led to my downfall. I was working up wind and things where going well, going very nicely the ama just skimming the water and occasionally flying. I was now sitting on the outer edge of the seating platform most of the time. On one particular run the ama started to fly, I could not get any further outboard and failed to release the sheets. He went further over and I ended up flipping over the rapidly becoming vertical seating platform. Next thing I know is I am falling off the platform and land on the windward side of the vaka on my back (fell 3 to 4 feet). The impact is accompanied with crunching and splintering of plywood. I was now stood on the vaka, capsized mast resting in the water, everything is stable and I examine the large crack / hole from gunwale to chine. I had a righting line rigged and quickly had it up the right way. Getting back on board was a challenge, the seating platform was too high up. I scrambled onto the ama and gingerly onto aka and seating platform. Unfortunately I was now AMS and the sails stuck on the wrong side shooting down wind, as I tried to solve this I drifted into the nature reserve and was towed back in, sailing over.
So where next? the hole is fixable, the AMS is a big issue and I think major rework of the ama and seating platform may be required. There are lots of other things to improve. The main concern is the suitability of sailing such a craft in such confined and congested waters. I think the sailing club may reconsider letting me sail at the club.
Anyway off for a long hard think.
TINK
Good job on getting your boat out sailing, regardless of the outcome!
My first thought is that you need a net between the end of your seating platform and the ama, which will allow you to move weight out to balance in higher winds. Actually, after looking at your pictures again, a net between the akas all the way from the vakka to the ama would probably be better.
My second is that the ama really needs a pointed bow to reduce drag. What is the length:beam ratio of the ama? Everything I read says it should not be less than 20:1.
Great story, thanks for posting.
It sounds like the body position between the vaka and ama needs to be able to be quickly adjusted. Perhaps a sliding seat?
Is there any flex in the crossbeam that would make the vaka and ama not parallel with eachother?
Thanks for the report. If it makes you feel any better backwinding ( AMS is an acronym for ?) is a common occurrence in small experimental proas.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/designs/johnson/acdc/index.cfm
Another common thread is they are good in a breeze, much less so in lighter stuff. This led to a long excursion into playing with crab claw rigs, which have a lot of merits….reefability and downwind manners are not among them.
A little slow one handed at the moment, but I’ll think on the issues your having and get back to you. One suggestion is to find some one who is at least sympathetic to your quest to observe, video and swap places while sorting out what’s happening. Texas Proa Championships were always a tremendous learning experience even when the lessons sunk in long after the four of us had left the lake. Miss you Laurent.
Your current experience fills me with both dread and anticipation of travelling the same path with the Broomstick.
Cheers,
Skip